Wednesday, December 13. 2006S/he's Not Heavy, Zie's My Non-Gendered Sibling: Why Gender-Neutral Pronouns Don't Work for MeTrackbacks
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i eat lettuce. my wife and my husband both eat lettuce. zey like lettuce. hir likes lettuce and so does zie.
#1
on
2006-12-14 14:29
I'm a little confused as to how you're using the g-n pronouns here -- I'd always heard them as "zie" and "zir" for s/he and the possessive/objective, respectively (or "hie," which always seemed awkward to me anyway, and "hir"). That's how I tend to use them too, when I bother to use them at all -- which is generally only when I'm unsure as to how the individual of whom I am speaking identifies.
But if we can't even decide how they're properly used of course they're not going to catch on! :p
my reply:
i think you actually missed something in your thought about gender neutral pronouns, and your assumptions of it's ultimate goals. perhaps their use isn't for a gender revolution as you define it, but rather one as we ("new gendered/transgendered") people define it. perhaps it's simply a way of showing equal respect for those who are in the middle. instead of the purposeful, biggoted use of incorrect gender pronouns.while i agree that queering the use of pronouns (by queers) as you point out does a bit to disable gender, it is largely contained in a subculture, and has little chance of gaining currancy in the larger society. i disagree with you, that these words wil never take hold. i think they are in their infancy. in the 30's there was no transgended. before it was zhe is an "invert" but we have changed to see and recognize those who's gender has changed or in the process of changing. i think in the future gender will be very different from how we see it now, and i think the next generation may find creative expression in lives that are gender neutral, and at first it will be weird, and people will need to come "out" and it will become more and more common, as will pronouns that discribe those who understand or project themselves absent of gender. not all revolutions are the loud, it-happened-over-night ones. and not all revolutions are about completely dismantling what came before them. sometimes they simply strive to make room for those who had no room. or to create new freedoms. sometimes revolutions are personal, and take place when people who look themselves in the eye and understand that they are different than they've been taught. just like the queers before us did. but on futher thought i would ammend my comments to say this: i don't think that the linguistic queering of gender in the queer community really does much to disable gender, not just in the larger community, but even in the queer community. using this essay about, of all things, postmodern evolutionary theory in 'The French Lieutenant's Woman.' by tony e. jackson, we find a slightly succinct synopsis of post modern critique-- which is perfect for looking at gender. understanding this, we discover that to truly disable gender requires more than the occasional, intentional queering. quote: "The elements of postmodern thinking that will be most relevant here revolve, as always, around the fundamental critique of metaphysical absolutes of all kinds, a metaphysical absolute being any representation [like gender] that is taken consciously or unconsciously as entirely self-contained, self-identical, self-present, and therefore outside the realm of culture, history, desire, and ideology. .... In any case, whatever the particular realm in which the critique of metaphysical absolutes occurs, one common outcome is the discovery that absolutes of this kind always function as unconscious anchors for a certain kind of identity. So the critique typically involves two most general results: It reveals that a given absolute is in fact a construction of history, culture, and desire, and it reveals that the construction has been misrecognized as an absolute because a certain self or cultural or sexual identity depends on not seeing the construction as a construction." unquote. in otherwords, we think of gender in this culure as being something entirely natural. but using a postmodern critique, we see that gender is false, constructed. carefully crafted to hide it's lies and seams. the seams-- what makes natural gender obviously false-- in this case are the transgendered, interesexed, and androgenous. when we use the tools that hide gender's artificiality (our gender specific pronouns), we reinforce it's lies, pushing the transgendered back into a usless bianary of male/female. creating and using words that force us to realize gender is not a binary, either or proposition, makes us look at the lies of a natural gender as just that, lies.
It's wild how a single word can jar your own sense of self. I always imagine I look one way but appear so differently in other people's pictures of me. In a weird sense, it also applies to how people respond to my gender.
I'm a gay asian man but often times, I'm perceived as female. I can be in a suit or a tank top, still, many address me as "Miss." Recently, I've been getting a lot of "Ms." My lines are showing! (gasp!) My friend Drian, who's MTF, said that I'm a gay man trapped in a transgender body. In fact, I'm Male-to-Male with Female overtones; (biologically gay Male to-FTM transgender), which makes me gender-fluid. (I tend not to use gender-queer to describe myself because I define that as crossing sexual persuasions.) Or am I the fulfilling another stereotype of a smooth, soft face Asian boy? The point is; I never correct people when they mis-ID my gender. That's fine by me. I am as much she as I am he. How can I deny my mom or my dad's dna in me? I agree with you. I don't find the need to invent vocabulary to redefine gender - which shifts constantly anyway. I will go a step further and say don't bother reclaiming language either...(faggot, the n word, s/he.) I'm debating whether or not my dog Marshmallow is truly female. I don't think dogs face the same gender issues we do but I may be species-prejudiced. Bottom line, the perceived gender confusion is merely a gender realization. That she is not really she and he is not really he. And words don't FULLY define who we are. And clothes don't make a man. At least, not my clothes. Few notes on your Chinese gender reference. It's true, spoken Chinese, she/he/it sounds the same: "ta." And the Chinese don't attribute sex to inanimate objects or living creatures. But in writing, they are gender specific and human- vs. non-human- specific - meaning "he," "she," and "it" are three separate words. And certain Chinese characters can also be broken down to have feminine and masculine components. However, with the modernization and social and cultural cleansing in China, I may be wrong. (I can't stand simplified Chinese. It's stripping the rich culture and history of language.) We just can't escape from gender classification! Perhasps if Noah rightly gendered the animals before taking them onto his ark, we wouldn't have so many extinct species.
I was a little confused about your opinion. I always thought Ze (or Zie) and hir is used not for those who went to "the other side" of their birth sex, but rather to be used to those who refused to be categorized in the binary.
For instance, I am a Japanese female-born individual. In Japanese, first person pronoun can tell a lot - sex, class, age, etc. I am completely uncomfortable with using first person pronoun specified as female. And it is the same discomfort as one who knows and has no doubt that I was born with femal anatomy, but also knows who has male part in me - not anatomically, mind you. I consider the self as gender-transcender. The current society still lacks true diversity. That is why "transgender" can only mean, or at least perceive to mean, "going to the other side." There are, however, those who are out side of either gender and it is also included the terminology transgender, is my understanding. Therefore, Pauline, your argument that Zie/hir would not get the community what it deserves is short-sighted and narrow.
#5
on
2006-12-21 21:00
Maybe I'm echoing what other people have said, but you and I have totally different ideas about the purpose of using zie/hir. I agree with you that gender-neutral pronouns aren't a good way to dismantle gender, that gendered language says little or nothing about sexism in the culture, all of that. But I don't think "zie" must or should be viewed as some kind of tool of activism. It's an option, one that some people want or need. Though you're right that using both pronouns is a better way to make a point about social contructs, there is no reason why a person's identity needs to make any point. Some of my friends who have found both she and he to be real misnomers have used zie instead. Some of them used this for a short while before coming to a more gendered conclusion, some of them have taken it on permanently. I don't think it matters whether zie is effective politically if it helps even a tiny minority make sense of themselves, of their place in the world.
Um, 他 and 她 look pretty different to me. One has a 'person' radical (him) and one has a 'woman' radical (her. Not necessarily a person, I guess). Both phonetics are the same 'ta' yes, and so is 'it': 它. A pedantic point perhaps, but then, the most elegant critical-theoretic arguments shouldn't have to depend on empirical evidence I suppose.
great post, totally agree, I've made a similar argument, but much less detailed at http://metaphysics-srs.blogspot.com/2007/01/gender-neutral-pronouns.html
By the way, how do you do the spam prevention thing? Being a newbie I'm still trying to get the basic right. cheers
You forgot to mention that in China they no longer have a gender-neutral pronoun in writing. Ever since the mid 20th century (not sure on exact date), "tā" is now written with three different characters, one for "he": 他, one for "she": 她, and one for "it": 它, even though they are in fact all the same word. Actually, there's two more characters for "ta" as well, one for use with animals and one for gods. The characters for ta-he and ta-she incorporate the characters for "man" and woman".
It's not about whether or not you feel comfortable using zie and zir/hir/zem (I've heard several versons of the accusative pronoun). It's about how the people who prefer to be referred to as zie feel when people call them he or she. A transgender person may not like the idea that everyone zie meets is assigning zir a set of social roles and rules that zie does not necessarily conform to. By asking people to refer to zir as 'zie', zie takes the power to define zeir(???) own gender and therefore role in society. You refer to the pronoun 'zie' as an artificial and ineffective construct, as having no relation to culture. However, I've personally only ever heard it used by young people, usually under 25. And for such a recent coinage, it has great currency. It's used by lgbt communities and co-operatives all over California (where I live), and from what I understand the rest of the country. To me it seems remarkable that this word has spread as rapidly as it has. Pronouns are considered by linguists to be a "closed class" of words. New pronouns simply do not come into being very quickly, and it's even more rare for one to simply come into being fully formed. Consider the Spanish pronouns 'vosotros', 'nosotros' and 'Usted', all of which are fairy recent coinages, and all of which are ultimately contractions of two words, being 'vos+otros', 'nos+otros' and 'vuestra+merced', respectively. All of these words took centuries to catch on, but today are used by millions of people. By comparison, zie is a completely new word rather than a transparent contraction, and its usage therefore has to be explained to anyone who has not heard it before, at least until it becomes widespread enough that people begin to learn it in childhood just like their other pronouns. Given these additional difficulties that zie faces, it's astonishing to me that it's already spread so far. Before you criticize any effort to speak with an egalitarian pronoun, consider how we've already changed. You mentioned the invention of 'Ms.' to be used instead of Mrs. and Miss, but you failed to mention the great impact this had on women, who were no longer defined by their marital status on every letter they wrote, every form they filled out, and so on. In addition to this, female professionals have benefitted from the use of gender-neutral titles for practically every job in the world, a shift that only began a generation ago but which today helps women to be judged based on their job rather than their gender. These transitions a NEW and only a few decades ago, many people said that they were destined to failure. To me it just goes to show how much we underestimate ourselves. Language is the most basic element of a culture. Clearly, it can adapt to changing culture extremely rapidly. Given the holes in your argument regarding the inefficacy of zie and the idea of a grammatical third or neutral gender, I'm left to wonder if you are not simply discomforted by the idea of a third or neutral gender in society.
#9
on
2011-08-15 18:23
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